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Johnny & Madeleine Get The Horn
Maybe I can learn? 
8th-Feb-2006 02:31 pm
pudding
It wasn't fair to say I'm not all that keen on Sebastian. The truth is that I do not understand. I don't get it. Um.
Comments 
8th-Feb-2006 02:42 pm (UTC)
Well, I don't get Sebastian or public sex parties, but I suppose it's good to hear about these things and expand one's horizons.
8th-Feb-2006 02:57 pm (UTC)
Neither do I, really. I suppose it's not that different from the slightly more controlled thing that happens when you make up characters and then get them to interact with each other in stories.

I'm still trying to make sense of a raucous and well-developed set of personality-trait clusters that don't all get on with each other, but that inconveniently all have to inhabit the same body. It's not always comfortable.

I'm not sure what kind of reality this persona has exactly though - all I can explain is that if I go clothes shopping with a Sebastian head on I'll come back with very different stuff.

Oh I dunno...
8th-Feb-2006 03:00 pm (UTC)
are you like Sybil?
8th-Feb-2006 04:22 pm (UTC)
Who's Sybil?
9th-Feb-2006 09:27 am (UTC)
Who's Sybil? Did you not spend your Saturday afternoons in the local libary with your nose stuck in the "health" section reading about people with (what used to be called) multiple personality disorder?

Had you done so, you would have met Sybil, a woman with 30 personalities who wrote a book with her psychiatrist. The book was a smash hit best seller in the 1970s then a film came out in the 80s.

There has been controversy as to whether Sybil had MPD or whether the psychiatrist had planted multiple personality memories in her mind during hypnosis. Regardless, there are some lurid descriptions of enemas that made me feel horny, guilty and confused in equal measures when I were a lass.
9th-Feb-2006 09:44 am (UTC)
Leaving aside

- The smell of local libraries *desk*
- enemas (see above)
- hypnosis (ditto)

no, I don't think I'm like Sybil. See, I don't believe we're separate people as such, in fact I'd much rather Sebastian and I were the same person all the time. It's more as though it's too much of a pain in the arse being my whole self at once, and I want to find out if it's simpler to hive off clusters of traits and give them different names. A bit like tagging your Livejournal entries so you can see all others with the same theme.

That said, a persona is generative, in a way that computer markup isn't. And there's something more to the Sebastian thing. For starters, for reasons I can't explain I know now that it's the nom de plume I've been hunting for absolutely ages. And wearing skirts and heels like a dragged-up boy just makes sense to me. Plus I think he'd take cock much better than I do.

But I'm sure this only counts as MPD if I start quarrelling with him. We do disagree on things like folk music, barley in soups and Radio 3, but generally we get on OK. So it's not a disorder.
9th-Feb-2006 12:24 pm (UTC)
"And wearing skirts and heels like a dragged-up boy just makes sense to me." is it the thing about other people's expectations? I mean if you're a femme then, unless you wear some sort of sandwich board explaining your gender, you are still presumed by the majority of people looking at you to have perfectly aligned clothing and gender identity. Aligned according to their rules and with no conscious thought or decision on your part.

Sebastian, through being male, gives you the freedom to be feminine. No? Likewise, I don't think there is anyway I could possibly contemplate getting pregnant unless it was as a man. I couldn't bear the thought of people like my parents being all pleased that I'd finally settled down and was being a good girl. Or similarly likewise, I couldn't enjoy penis/vagina sex until I was out as a lesbian and then I didn't want to be part of the lesbian community until I was a man. It's contrary and childish but also fantastic. Revolution now!

Hello Sebastian. Pleased to meet you.
9th-Feb-2006 12:48 pm (UTC)
*dabs tear from eye with lace hanky*

Yeah, very much like that.

Perhaps the difference between Sebastian and Scoundrel is that while Scoundrel sometimes felt as though she was literally begging people to give her permission to be both combative and attractive as a femme, Sebastian is quite happy for people just to say 'right, fine, whatever', take him spitting and swearing by the hair, beat him soundly and then fuck him up the arse.

As you say, revolution now!
9th-Feb-2006 03:56 pm (UTC)
Wasn't sybil also the book with the description of what happened to her as a baby, with her daddy, pedo whateverness... (guilty:horn:vileness)


I think you are on the right track there my dear with your previous comment.
I have a another theory about 'bas...

1 = fiesty femme walks up to bunch of bois - bois too scared of fiesty femme so fiddle with each other instead

2 = nancy boi walks up to bunch of bois - bois have him

who wins?


I too have been thinking about Sebastian and why I have this daddi/bear/dirty:uncle reaction to him.

Don't know why just yet, but I wanna do things to him...
9th-Feb-2006 04:42 pm (UTC)
Hmm. I think it was Judith Butler who said that desire is desire precisely because it's opaque. If it was transparent and explicable it wouldn't be desire.
9th-Feb-2006 05:06 pm (UTC)
1 = fiesty femme walks up to bunch of bois - bois too scared of fiesty femme so fiddle with each other instead

2 = nancy boi walks up to bunch of bois - bois have him


Hold on! I don't get it again. I think it's the use of the word "boi" that's thrown me. Are you using it in the dyke/lesbian sense? So is it about a femme scaring the butch dykes but a male-identified dyke tranny fag type figure not scaring them? Of course they'd react like that.

And Drel, if Sebastian has ventured into "the other place" with you, I bet the bois are up in arms! Afterall, it's a very serious business crossing genders, isn't it? Not to be taken lightly apparently.

9th-Feb-2006 05:28 pm (UTC)
Interestingly, The Other Place seems to have taken to him and his cashmere cardies - I think they are grateful for her return, whatever the gender...

re use of boi - I was being specific with the use of that, pertaining to the boi quotient of The Other Place. I'm not too sure about them being butch dykes...are they? I'd call myself butch dyke if I absolutely had to and had no other label to use - but I'd never call myself a boi. For me boi implies youth, aspiring to become a daddi or summat like that, and, it seems - more interested in fucking other bois.
And, only going on what has been posted There...there seems to be bois and daddis and puppies and bears - but not many butches.
And I think she would/does scare them - but maybe I am presuming too much, in reality I dont really know anyone from There.

re Judith Butler - will you please stop sending me to google m'lady? I'm an uneducated ( in queer theory ) colonial, dont'cha know...
10th-Feb-2006 09:52 am (UTC)
Well, Sebastian and Scoundrel are not madly different. True, Sebastian would never stoop to earnest and tedious discussions of queerness, and he doesn't have any hangups about preserving his virtue. And while Scoundrel was often to be found furiously defending a strained veneer of femininity, Sebastian would prefer a little less of it - he's forever stumbling into campness just when everyone's meant to take him seriously. Otherwise they sound the same, look more or less the same and share a large collection of cardies.

As for boi or butch. The simplest difference seems to be that you can patronise bois without getting punched, they're cutesier somehow. With reference to The Other Place, offline there's a few I'd call butch, but online there's not many that play that role. But I'm not sure how you 'do' butch online anyway (see butch-femme.com for some truly stomach-churning 'virtual butches'). Arguably grown-up, intelligent, educated men don't go about smearing their masculinity all over the place in conversation (well, not overly, anyway), so why should grown-up, intelligent, educated butches do so either?
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